Sarah & Julia (& Podcamp Boston)
My first feminist role model was, undeniably, Julia Sugarbaker of “Designing Women”.
This character knew her way around a takedown, whether expressing her point of view on sexual harrassment or standing up to a bitchy beauty queen.
In short, Julia Sugarbaker didn’t take any crap from anyone; nor did she suffer fools easily.
I think I can say with authority that the smart and talented women in social media, particularly those at Podcamp Boston 4 last weekend, all have a little Julia in them. How else can we describe the spirited and thoughtful posts springing out of the Podcamp discussion on gender and social media?
So why do I still feel so disheartened?
I think it’s because by and large, the women on the lawn that day seemed to fall in step behind Chris Penn’s conclusions. To wit, that sexism, or a “glass ceiling” effect, has nothing to do with the lack of women on the social media “A-list.” That anyone who thinks so is just falling victim to “self imposed limitations.”
The idea seems to be that if women aren’t succeeding, they have only themselves to blame. Quite a convenient theory, I’d say.
The argument that claiming sexism plays a part in any challenge we face is encouraging women to “play the victim” is far from new. It’s a straw man that’s tapped repeatedly in debates about feminism. And it positively reeks of privilege. Male privilege specifically, although the number of women adhering to it also hints that it might also be privilege of experience. That is, if you haven’t experienced something personally, it must not exist.
In an old but good post about privilege, Barry Deutsch quotes a paper on white privilege. Its author argues that white people are “taught to see racism only in individual acts of meanness, not in invisible systems conferring dominance on my group.”
With regards to sexism, it’s the “invisible system” that was the crux of my comments during the Podcamp gender discussion. It’s not always about some tangible, moustache-twirling man making a conscious decision to discriminate against women, or keep them off the stage at conferences. I argued that cultural issues are at play here, unspoken “rules” that we’re taught from a young age, and the constant messages we receive about women in the public eye. We are scrutinized far more closely, and judged much more harshly. We’re bombarded with messages that our appearance matters more than anything.
I mentioned at the sesssion popular livecaster iJustine as a woman who has “made it” in social media. Is it a coincidence that, along with being very smart working very hard, she is also a blonde bombshell? On the flip side, someone should ask her how much disgusting, sexual, or harassing email she gets. Someone should read about Julia Roy’s experiences being an attractive woman at the top of the social media game. Better yet, go back and read the story of what happened to Kathy Sierra.
Something tells me the men on the A-list aren’t dealing with these types of issues. Is it any wonder we might be somewhat reluctant to promote ourselves? What are the auto-suggestions when you type “iJustine is” into Google?
Naturally. As a woman if you’re hot, you’re golden. Unless of course you have opinions. Then you’re also annoying. Can’t have that.
Penn’s major comment during the session was that it “doesn’t care what’s between your legs, just between your ears.”
I was shocked at this statement, and moreso that the group actually erupted into applause after he said it. I basked in the irony that everyone seemed to think he was making some sort of statement on equality by using provocative language that dismisses the entire feminist movement as, basically, a bunch of whining vaginas.
Have there not ALWAYS been women with plenty going on between their ears? Are there not currently TONS of women in social media who are incredibly smart, incredibly accomplished, and incredibly under-represented everywhere–from the stage at SxSW to the Power 150?
Chris says we need to just “be awesome.” I’m sorry, I was unaware that we weren’t already awesome. I can name at least 100 awesome women right now. Why is it the responsibility for changing the state of affairs all on us?
Continuing his odd inclination to use language in this debate that boils women down to their genitals, Chris says of Michelle Wolverton, the terrific lead organizer of Podcamp Boston, that she “didn’t become lead organizer of the first and oldest PodCamp by demanding a chance because she’s got a vagina.”
Excuse me, but what? Find me one example of any woman who has written or spoken about this issue who has claimed that women should be given more speaking roles becuase of our “vaginas.”
This seems to be a consistent confusion, so let me clear it up right now. No one is saying that conference organizers just pick any old women off the street and give them a mic just because they’re women. No one.
We’re saying that women who are already equally deserving of these chances, women who ARE “awesome,” have been overlooked. And we’re asking that it be corrected.
I think Beth Dunn said it better than I could in the comments on my post – there are and always have been systemic, structural inequalities, but what sets apart new media from other systems, at least for the moment, is the blue ocean strategy idea, the idea that in a disruptive space, you can make your own rules.
Case in point – PodCamp’s bar to entry for speakers of any group is exceptionally low. You pretty much need to show up, and that’s about the only qualification that’s required. Yet any number of people have gotten their start professionally speaking at a PodCamp and have leveraged the opportunity to go onto bigger and better things. Women who want to speak just need to sign up, yet the majority of speakers are still men. Why?
If you’re being underrepresented, then you need to step up and grab the opportunities that ARE present and underutilized. For the open sessions, we had 90% of the slots empty – completely and totally empty. For the scheduled slots, it took us weeks to even gather enough people of any gender to sign up. This is why I put the onus of responsibility on [insert minority here] in new media to represent.
Gina Minks had a great blog post on this as well from her perspective. Worth a read too:
http://gminks.edublogs.org/2009/08/09/podcamp-boston-lack-of-women-speakers-and-bringing-things-to-neutral/
Thanks for your feedback Chris! I agree that Gina has had a couple of excellent posts on this subject as well.
I agree that Podcamp is an excellent conference that should be one of the focuses of any organized effort from women in social media to encourage each other to speak up. The opportunity at Podcamp is there, and we do just need to grab it. I know I didn’t practice what I preach at this most recent one; I’ll plan to correct that in the future.
I’d argue however that there are dozens of conferences that don’t follow the Podcamp format; their speaker rosters are set by invitation. I think the organizers of such conferences should make a bigger effort.
I appreciate your thoughtful comment!
One of my favorite stories in Malcolm Gladwell’s Blink was exactly about this – the symphony orchestra that put up a screen for auditions so that only the music could be heard resulted in a drastic change in the composition of orchestras for gender and race.
I’d like to see conference organizers post up session proposals that are anonymized and have attendees vote on what they want to see. The best content wins, and only afterwards will you find out who wrote the sessions.
Great piece!
My only quibble is my utter disdain for Julia Sugarbaker.
Not Dixie Carter, the actress, who portrayed the role with gusto. But the character, whose moralizing and heavy-handed browbeating was a real turnoff for me. (Not just for the show, but also the political philosophy that was crammed in by the Thomasons.)
And as you know, I am *all* for conferences that give women their rightful place: in the front of the room, speaking, where men can shut up and learn from them.
Haha–Ike, how dare you! You’ll never alter drapes in Atlanta again! Haha…I just loved Julia, but I can see your point. She could be a bit heavy handed at times.
But we can agree that Julia would never be timid about running a session at Podcamp.
Hmm… “Something tells me the men on the A-list aren’t dealing with these types of issues.”
I’m sure you’re right, Let’s try “Chris Pirillo is ” into Google.
Opps….
Fair enough, so apparently some people hate Chris Pirillo. But the “issues” I was referring to in that quote were those of the women I mentioned prior to the Google pic. All three women have been either stalked, harassed or bullied online, and I think prominent female bloggers, particularly the attractive ones, face that with FAR greater regularity than the men.
I was at that same discussion in the grass at Podcamp Boston 4 – and heard a lot of the same old wars being discussed as I did *FOUR* years ago at Podcamp NYC when I did a talk on Women in Podcasting. Four years, and some of the same women are on the scene, and still talking about how men keep them down. If that is the case for them individually, I’m very sorry to hear it. I’ve been in this space since before it had a name, or before all the marketers rushed to it, or before there was *anything*. I literally watched it being formed, and I’m happy to say I was one of the people back in 2004 that helped form the community. My professional career in the industry goes back to 1989 and only twice did I hit a wall due to sexism (and I kicked the shit out of it, learned something, and went on with my life).
For anyone that only sees men keeping them down, attractive skinny blondes getting ‘more’ because of their looks – are looking in the wrong places. Surround yourself with those people and qualities you aspire to be otherwise you will get dragged down to the depths of self-hate, pity, worthlessness & bitterness. I’m not blind, I know discrimination and sexism exists – I see traces of it hidden in the sidelines all the time. But it is dying, being stomped out everyday by strong PEOPLE (not just women) that call bullshit and value people for who the are, not what’s in their pants. I see myself as a valuable person before I see myself as a woman and in turn that’s how others see me.
I have a large circle of strong people around me, both men and women (and fairly equally divided between the two). I suggest to someone that can only see dispair and bias around them that they need to decide what is important to them – spinning their wheels on what’s wrong & how much worse off they are for it — or focus on what they want to be, and *BE* that change, that positive force. Like everyone else, I’m not saying “forget the past” – but if it’s all you focus on – that will BECOME YOUR FOCUS.
Lynette, thanks for the taking the time to respond so thoroughly, I appreciate this discussion resulting on my post!
I want to respond, however, to your and others’ claim that people with my perspective on this issue are somehow acussing men of “keeping us down.” I don’t think that’s what I’m saying at all; in fact I think I make it pretty clear in this post that I am NOT saying that. It’s far more complex than just “us vs them”.
I also am disturbed by the meme that this perspective is somehow indicative of self loathing. To argue that recognizing sexist barriers means I just am feeling sorry for myself is a bit insulting. No one thinks higher of me than me, with the possible exception of my parents.
These types of responses speak to what I mean when I talk about privilege of experience. This is not the first time I’ve made a feminist argument and been met with “Well *I* never experienced sexism.” Or “Well when *I* had to deal with this sexist situation, *I* handled it myself.”
How nice…for YOU. But to deny the experiences of countless other women, and to deny that there are deeply rooted societal influences at work here–that I can’t understand.
And finally, can we please stop with the genitalia speak? What’s between your legs, what’s in your pants, “demanding a chance bc she has a vagina,” “women are trapped in their own vaginas.”–and those are just a few of the quotes from the last few days. Why is this discussion degenerating to that? I don’t think anyone beyond kindergarten needs to be reminded that we have different equipment. It’s totally condescending language.
Yes, many, many women experience what you and others describe tat day. And yes, there are many deeply rooted societal influences at work. I’m happy to acknowledge that. I’m also happy to acknowledge my own experiences as a woman in the workplace. I was once told, in a performance review (by a woman!) to “do my hair and wear more lipstick.” The same woman also told me to lose weight. And to wear skirts instead of pants.
So, sometimes the greatest discrimination happens within our own group: I spoke on the lawn that day, too–and was felt immediately unwelcome to my opinions.
What gets me is that there is no universal truth here except for the fact that prejudice exists, and yet we’ve all been a little guilty of speaking as if there is.
Each of us sees the truth of the situation as defined by our own experience. For some of us, our gender has been a massive stumbling block, despite enormous ability. For some of us, it hasn’t. The reasons for *why* that’s the case are as diverse as the women themselves. There’s no easy answer.
I guess what I’m wondering is, what is it we want to have happen here? Are we asking how to get more and/or better representation of women in social media? Or are we asking how to remove prejudice? One is concrete, and therefore much easier to tackle, the other abstract–and ageless.
While prejudice, both real and perceived, is *one* of the reasons some women don’t have the prominence they desire (or deserve), I don’t believe it’s the only one.
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